The CRE Connection · Samy Soussan

00:00 - Samy (Host)
Welcome to the Commercial Real Estate Connection Podcast, the place where we connect with the brightest minds in commercial real estate, uncovering their secrets, strategies and captivating stories. I'm your host, sami Sousan, here to serve as your guide and connector-in-chief on this exciting journey. Together, we'll dive deep into the world of commercial real estate, exploring the ins and outs of this dynamic industry. Our goal is to discover the true power of meaningful connections along the way, so get ready to plug in, engage and elevate your commercial real estate journey. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Commercial Real Estate Connection Podcast.

00:34
I'm really excited here today to have a unique guest, beth Azor from Florida. Beth, most people know you in the social media world as the canvassing queen or the leasing queen, and I've personally had the opportunity to follow a lot of your retail leasing journey and what you've been sharing, and it's been incredible to learn from what you've been promoting and putting out there. So thank you. Thank you for what you've been doing and for joining us today on the show. What you've been doing and for joining us today on the show, beth. I think one of the things that come to mind when I think about someone who has so much experience in your space is looking back at what did little Beth look like. Is this what you were planning on doing? Can you take us back a little bit about how you got started and where you're at now?

01:19 - Beth (Host)
So my parents we I grew up in Milwaukee, wisconsin. We had a bar and a restaurant. I think that lifestyle wore thin on my parents, even though their grandparents were in the same business. So my dad got his real estate license and started cold calling from do you know what the white pages are? You're very young. You probably don't. I'm familiar. Okay, so for the audience, it was literally this thick. When you were a little kid they would put it on chairs at Thanksgiving for you to have a booster. This is how thick they were. And they had everybody in the city of Milwaukee their name, their address and their phone number. It was great. And my dad sat at the dining room table at nights cold calling selling people lots in Florida so that when they retired they could build their dream home. And so he got into real estate and it was a side hustle that became a full-time gig. We ended up moving from Wisconsin to Florida and they were in residential real estate and property management. My mom did property management so she would have a 100 absentee condo owners and she would rent to vacationers and she would get calls at nights and weekends. And I would say I would never do this, I would never be in property management or real estate.

02:40
So I went to school. I wanted to be a lawyer. I liked the Perry Mason shows. But after five years of schooling I said I don't want to do any more schooling. I had extended an extra year because I was having a lot of fun in college. I convinced my parents that a double major would be better for my resume. But I was really just staying and having a good time.

03:01
I graduated and got a job in special events for a charity. I loved my job but I started making $11,000. This was in 1983, probably the equivalent today of about $35,000 or $40,000, not enough to pay my bills. In most residential real estate families, when your parents are in residential, most kids get their licenses when they turn 18, which is what I did also. So at 18, I got my residential license and during college summers I would sit open houses for my parents. But it was nothing ever that I was ever going to take serious. It was just making some money over the summers.

03:43
Well, when I got my dream job at the charity of the special events coordinator because my degree was in, I got an English literature degree because I thought I was going to law school, but my double major was communications and public relations. So I loved that job, but not making enough money. I said, okay, I can work on the weekends sitting model homes, which is what I did. So for two years I did that seven days a week and I got tired of working nonstop.

04:11
My charity boss called me into her office one day and I had gone from 11,000 to 23,000. So I had significantly increased my comp, but still not enough to live the lifestyle I wanted. She said we love you. This is the best boss ever. She said we love you, but your ambition exceeds us. You're never going to make enough money here at the not-for-profit, so you should go. She had been watching me work my butt off every weekend. She said you should just go do this real estate thing full-time and volunteer for us. You know you'll still be involved, you'll still be part of the family, but you know you can make. And it was true. I had probably increased my weekend comp to maybe 40. So there was just more opportunity. She was smart. She directed me the right way. That's what I did.

05:01
I quit the not forprofit and I started doing residential full-time. Immediately hated it Would go home crying every night, thinking I sold out for money. I had my dream job, but for money. But that's kind of the way of the world. I have nieces who are teachers who say you know I don't make any money. You know it's a dilemma.

05:24
So while I'm working in the residential job, a young woman came in to help us for Mother's Day weekend because we were going to have a big couple model homes opening. We were going to be very busy and she worked for a retail developer and she said you need to get into commercial, you would be great. And I'm like commercial Gross, that's like, isn't that selling land? That's more boring than this. And she said no, no, no. We build shopping centers and you go find people to open stores and bagel places and dry cleaners and shoe stores and you help these people with their American dream. And I'm like sold, where do I sign up for that? That's right up my alley.

06:06
She said there's a company in Miami that does training for people to be leasing agents. I called there on Monday and I said do you have a training program to help people be leasing agents? I didn't even know what I was talking about and they said yeah. I said who's in charge of that and they told me a woman by the name of Donna Abood. I went Donna Abood from Florida State where I went to school. She goes, yeah, she went to Florida State. Sammy, she was my sorority sister.

06:33 - Samy (Host)
Wow.

06:34 - Beth (Host)
She picks up the phone. She goes Beth. I go yeah, she was your hire, just come meet the boss. And I was there 18 years. I grew from the training program to the president of the company.

06:45 - Samy (Host)
So you go from residential to all of a sudden to commercial that you had no experience about, just a friend who kind of said and identified that you'd be great at this. Okay, so walk me through a little bit. You're there for 18 years. What goes on while you're at that company?

07:03 - Beth (Host)
Very funny story. The first day I get there, I'm filling out the company paperwork we had 11 people at the company. My boss, donna, says I've got to go to a meeting with the big boss, we'll be back in a few hours. Just fill out this paperwork and read some of these articles and like I'm done with that in 20 minutes. So I'm like what am I going to do? Right, and my mom always taught me don't wait for your boss to tell you to do something. Find something that needs to be done and do it. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm in commercial real estate.

07:33
Now, mind you, sammy, I have no idea what that is. I have zero idea what commercial real estate is. But I, you know, I'm going to lease space. Okay, who would want some space? They're about to start training me into office leasing. Again, I don't know that. I thought I'm doing the American dream with the retail, but you know it's my first day. So I'm sitting there going well, who would need space? At the time, like Starbucks today, there was a company I don't know if you're familiar with it called Sir Speedy. Do you know that name, sir Speedy?

08:02
So, it was like 1,200 square foot mini FedEx. It wasn't really shipping, but it was copy and they were everywhere. So lawyers used them. This is way before we had these major printers in our offices. That's why they were popular. They were on every corner and I said well, sir Speedy probably needs some offices, let me call them.

08:28
So I get out the white pages and I look up Sir Speedy and there's you know, 30 inserts in Miami because they have 30 locations. And at the top it says Sir Speedy headquarters. So I called Sir Speedy headquarters. I said hi, I'm in commercial real estate. Do you need more locations? Like? I was not trained to do this. I don't know if this just came out of thin air. And the guy goes yes, I'm looking for a new headquarters, not kidding. I'm like great, you want to meet tomorrow. So my boss comes back and I go I have an appointment tomorrow for Sir Speedy headquarters. And they're looking at me dumbfounded and she goes well, I'm busy tomorrow. At that time You're going to have to go by yourself, but I'll role play with you and tell you what to say.

09:13
In the end his headquarters was only like a 250 square foot executive office, but it didn't matter. The point is I showed something like I didn't even know what I was doing, but I knew I'm going to lease space. Who takes a lot of space? This group. My first deal was with Sir Speedy, where I found them a new executive suite office and I knew. The minute I walked into their office it was like I just felt it in my bones oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. We had 11 people. We grew to about 130.

09:48
When I left, 18 years later, they did train me in office leasing. I hated office leasing. I was showing space to lawyer partners who were fighting with each other about which windows they had bigger Like it was just an ego fight. So there was an opportunity about I joined in November and about April there was an opportunity that we got a shopping center to lease for the RTC, which this is during the savings and loan crisis. So a bunch of banks were failing, the government was taking over all of these properties and we got this opportunity for a 230,000 square foot power center, grocery anchored center, but it was an hour away from our office. So my bosses were trying to hire someone to lease that shopping center and they were failing. They were very frustrated. It's like two weeks in they can't find anyone.

10:42
And I overheard them talking. Again my mom's advice look for a need. And I overheard them talking again my mom's advice look for a need. And I walked in and I said I'll lease it. It's got to be more fun than leasing to attorneys. And they said really, it's an hour from your house. I said just pay me mileage. This is before cell phones. So I spent a lot of time in my car listening to Tom Hopkins the psychology of selling. I said I would do it. And then it was funny how I spent a lot of time in my car listening to Tom Hopkins the Psychology of Selling. I said I would do it. And it was funny how it linked.

11:10
That became the American dream where I started helping people. The first deal I did was a bagel shop. I loved it. I never looked back. I did retail from then on. I grew through the company. A year later I had 17 listings. Eventually my boss, donna, left to start her own company. Stephen, the founder of the company, said I need you to come back to Miami. I had started hiring people. He said you need to be in charge of the retail division. I eventually became the executive vice president, the senior vice president and then the president of the company overseeing property management, accounting, leasing, investment sales, and we grew to be the largest third-party firm in the state of Florida for life insurance companies and pension fund advisors. If they bought a portfolio of three grocery anchored centers, we would be the first call. Okay, we're closing on these three deals next week. You know they're 150,000 square foot each. We need Terra Nova was the name of the company to take them over and we leased and managed them.

12:16 - Samy (Host)
That's really impressive. Just to touch on one of the points that you mentioned, my dad used to always tell me something very similar and he always say whatever job you're in, your role is to make yourself as indispensable as possible, and when you do that, you're always going to be successful. Going back to what you were saying, you didn't just sit back and wait and try to hear well, what am I supposed to do? Just pick up the phone and call us. It was intuitive, so obviously something that your parents really ingrained in you. I love that. You're there for 18 years. You grow the company, which is extremely impressive. So what goes on after that? You're there for 18 years. What's the next step in Beth's career?

12:57 - Beth (Host)
So I was married, had a child. My husband and I unfortunately got a divorce so I had a one-year-old and I had a live-in nanny. Three years in, I'm running this big company 130 people. My office is an hour from my house so I'm never seeing my four-year-old. At this point my nanny's raising my son and I've said, okay, I did not have a child at the age of 40 to have my nanny raising him.

13:26
So it was a very painful decision because I was very successful. I was at the pinnacle of my career, I was 44, but I decided that I needed to leave that company. We had a lot of discussion Can I stay in a lesser role? But I knew that would never work, that the employees would continue to come to me even if I was replaced with another president. So I left and I knew I was going to start buying real estate. I had been a limited partner with my boss and partner at Terranova in seven projects. You know I was a great LP. You know, and I watched how he was a great GP. So I said I think I can do this on my own A lot harder doing it on your own, but that was the goal.

14:10
I was successful and able to put some money away, some resources away. So I thought I would start doing that and I thought maybe I could do some consulting. I wasn't sure, but I knew. I said I'm going to take the year off. I wasn't sure, but I knew I said I'm going to take the year off. So I went and I was the room mom and the t-ball coach and I really just did.

14:28
I just rested for a year and became a mom and the phone rang from a REIT in Detroit called Ramco Gershenson, which ended up becoming RPT. They sold to Weingarten and now Kimco. But they called and said because those 14 agents I had most of them I hired green and trained them, and so my reputation of training retail leasing agents was pretty well known. So they called and said we just hired four kids out of the University of Michigan's real estate program. You know very good reputation. Can you train them? Can you come up to Detroit and do a training program with them? And I'm like well, january in Detroit? I don't think so. So I said but you have offices in Boca, down here in Florida. Why don't you send them down here and I will create a training program here, and you have properties down here so we can canvas for your properties, which is part of the training program. So they loved that idea.

15:31
I put together a one week long program. They flew these kids down and it was a huge success. They loved it. The young people prospered, they hit the ground running and and that REIT told other REITs and my reputation grew as a trainer, coach of leasing people and the phone started ringing and this side business became a little cash cow.

15:56
Even someone just asked me last week well, how many more people are doing it? I started this 20 years ago and there's really no one doing it to this day. No one is going into the headquarters of REITs and major property owners around the country teaching their leasing agents how to fill vacancy and how to find prospects, and I love teaching. I think I was a teacher in another life, so that supplemented my hash resources to buy properties and my goal was to buy one property every two years. I've done that. I've added to the portfolio, I've sold the portfolio. Today I have four centers. I've sold three in the last 18 months. I have three and they're valued at about $75 million and they're all within 10 minutes of my house.

16:42 - Samy (Host)
Those must be serious size centers. Wow, that's fascinating. So now most of your days are spent just training people and leasing and focusing on your centers.

16:51 - Beth (Host)
I would say 75% of my day is focused on my centers. We're doing a $2 million renovation on a recent one that I've bought into. I'm a minority partner in the investment I've put into it, but I'm a co-GP and I'm running the renovation, so we're in for a permit on that. I'm a minority partner in the investment I've put into it, but I'm a co-GP and I'm running the renovation, so we're in for permit on that. I'm the acquisition person. I have a very small team. It's me and my director of operations. She's been with me for 20 years. She started as a part-time assistant and I have a part-time bookkeeper and that's it.

17:21
I did have a property manager when I had the seven properties and she left last week. She's moving to North Carolina, so it's back to Josie and I and we can handle the four properties. So 75% of my time is spent on the properties and then 20% is on the training. The coaching percent is on the training, the coaching. I put on a women's investments seminar once a year. We have women speakers who invest in commercial real estate. I'm trying to get more women to invest. Women are fearful. They think it's too complicated. They don't see a lot of other women doing it, so I'm trying to change that.

18:04 - Samy (Host)
I love that. That's fascinating and I'd love to get into that more afterwards. I want to get back to something you mentioned earlier when you were training students about canvassing. Can you share a little bit more about what's the difference between canvassing and prospecting in general? What does that look like?

18:20 - Beth (Host)
So canvassing, in my definition, is literally going out into the community and walking into stores. So if I ask anyone what's the best prospect, well, the best prospect for a retail center is one that already pays rent to another landlord. Right, they are open, they pay rent, they've been there a while, they understand what it takes to have a good business. You can see that they have a good business. You can see the merchandise, you can see the customers coming in, you can read their reviews on. You know any of the online platforms. So if they're your best prospect. So I always say I qualify great prospects by two things other locations, meaning experience, and cash. So if I can see a prospect or a business in the community that is advertising a lot, that tells me they have cash, because the first thing that goes when they don't have cash is the marketing If they have another location, that's my best prospect. I want to find those people and they're readily available up and down the streets. So canvassing is just walking in and saying, hey, I have shopping centers in the area. Are you looking to expand? Are you happy with your current location? Do you need more space? Less space. It's just talking to businesses in the area but physically doing it. Other ways of prospecting is social media DMing, where again you can find them on Instagram and DM them. A lot of times you get responses right from the owner, because the owners pretty much manage their own social media profiles, but you don't get to see the merchandise, you don't get to see the cleanliness, you don't get to see you know if they.

20:13
I remember one day a guy calls me from a sign call and he goes I have a pet store. And I said awesome. And he said, yeah, I want to lease 3000 square feet. I'm like, great, I have a perfect space. And he goes okay, I go, you have locations. He goes, yeah, I have another location. I said okay. So we set a time for Monday for him to come look at my space. Over the weekend I went to see his space. When I drove up I was on the intersection and I could see the shopping center he was in. There was a huge storefront and there was literally a banner in the storefront it was probably 80 feet wide that says we buy wrap. But I went in and I go what's the deal with the sign? And he goes well, we have snakes. I'm like, okay, so I did not do a deal with that guy Now, had I not gone and seen him and he came and showed I'm a pet store you got to go see. So canvassing is in-person, in-store prospecting.

21:08 - Samy (Host)
Okay and you got to share this story, but how the name the Canvassing Queen came about. Was that something that was on your mind? I'm so curious about that. It's very funny.

21:18 - Beth (Host)
So I think I preach too much so my peers make fun of me. I'm always pushing for high rents. I'm known in the community for unrealistic rent pushers. They don't like it when I start putting out the high rents, but then they really like it when I start getting the high rents and then their properties also get the high rents right. But people just sometimes are insecure and jealous.

21:43
I talk about canvassing all the time and there are people that just don't believe in it. It doesn't work. And then when I challenged them about it not working, I said well, when have you gone? And they go. Well, I went once, like in 1992. I said, okay, this is why it doesn't work. One time I was at an ICSC one of our shopping center conferences and one of my peers who dismisses canvassing. I walked up to a group of people that were standing together and being very, very friendly, hey, hi. And this one person said oh, look, here comes the canvassing queen from that. And so we started using it and we ended up trademarking it. And yeah, so it was meant to be a ridicule and I turned it into a positive.

22:30 - Samy (Host)
I love that. That is probably one of the greatest lessons you learn. People try to put you down and you just took it and you're like no way I'm going to leverage that. That's awesome. You clearly have some personal traits that contributed to your success and I'm curious if you can identify one or two just traits that you believe that have contributed the most to your success.

22:52 - Beth (Host)
I think my former boss was quoted once to say that I was relentless like a dog with a bone. I was not going to let go of it. I think that is true. With a bone, I was not going to let go of it. I think that is true. But I also think what I've learned over the years is you have to be creative. I put on social media all the time, following up, checking in. Yeah, like that is not, you know, communication, a plus communication. Sometimes, when people are relentless, that's all they do Checking in. Do you have an answer for me? Do you have an answer for me? Do you have an answer for me? And I always teach if they haven't responded, you haven't done your job, you haven't given them enough information for them to make a decision and you just annoying them and nagging them. So what I try to do is I try to be creative.

23:45
I remember my biggest deal at that first deal. That first, where I did the bagel storage, there was a second floor and I was working on a hospital deal for 13,000 square feet. It would have been a huge deal. Second floor of a retail center. General Electric owned the shopping center eventually and they're like you're never leased in the second floor, don't even worry about it. But we had a hospital, but they were very bureaucratic and they couldn't make a decision and we kept getting close and then they'd go MIA and everyone's like just keep following that. Finally, I just called my contact. I said look, what would it take for you guys to get this signed in the next two weeks? What would it take? Just tell me. Go talk to your people, find out what would it take, because we want to make this deal. But this has been going on for months and my people are just ready to give up and move on. So what would it take, instead of death by a thousand cuts, and the guy comes back and he goes and I think we were trying to get 975 in rent. This is 13,000 square feet, second floor plus cam and he goes. If you could do a 935 deal, we'll sign next week. I'm like and I'm, of course, in my, I'm going I didn't really believe that. I thought, well, they're going to say that and then they're going to go. Really, if I can get them to drop to 935, you guys will sign next week. He goes, yeah. So I called him up. We waited like a day or two. I called him up. You've got it, we're changing the documents, I'm FedExing, I'm going to deliver the documents, let's get the sign up. And they signed. My boss just said follow up, follow up. I just came up with this like what would it take? And it was the magic question I mean.

25:24
Another time similar story. I took over a shopping center that had 100,000 square feet of new vacancies, so it was a 400,000 square foot development. 100,000 square foot of people moved out because the developer had done turnkey deals no guarantees, a year of free rent. So when the year of free rent burns off, there's no personal guarantees. And they fully built out these stores. What do you think happened? Duh, all these people and the rent went from zero rent for a year to more than market you know, 25 bucks in a $20 market. So 100,000 square feet of people walk out the door. General Electric owned that center. They called, they said we need Beth. We need Beth to come in and do her magic. So I canvassed for six months. No deals, because this property had the biggest stigma on it in the community. No one that everyone thought. You know it was haunted because everyone had moved out. So we, so I finally get a deal.

26:29
Eighteen thousand square foot sporting goods store, like before Sports Authority. It was a local guy with seven locations in Miami. They were going to come up to Fort Lauderdale for their first location, but they wanted the best location in the shopping center for no rent. There's no way you have to. When you're leasing space, you got to at least save the best space for last. You can't lease the best space at the cheapest rent going in. So we're, after three months at a standstill. We're going to drop this deal. I know from the leasing agent's perspective this deal is going to turn the whole place around. But I also know that I can't lock in a deal for 10 years with very minimal increases. I know that will kill my rates and my value for the rest of the property. So it's like the last night it's 830 at night.

27:15
I'm on the phone with the tenant. I'm like why do you have to have this space? Again it's asking questions why this space? And they go. We have seven locations in Miami. No one knows this in Fort Lauderdale. We have to make a splash, we have to make an announcement. People have to see us. I go well, how long is that going to take and they go yeah, we could, I guess, like two years. And I say so, what if I gave you the space, the 18,000 square feet, and the front space is the best space. But after two years, after 24 months, I can take back that 6,000 in the front or,000 in front warehouse space in the back and have space available for you. But then I can recapture that space and get the $20 that I know I'm eventually going to get and not the $9. And he goes, I'll do that.

28:05
I remember calling my boss at home, like at 9.30 at night. I'm like I think I have the solution to our problems and he's like this is a brilliant idea. Everyone agreed we did the 18,000. It was the catalyst that I did 50,000 square feet of leases and then, three months in the three months to follow, we ended up quitting on the deal a year in for political reasons. But I kept calling the company that took over and I kept saying don't forget. In you forget. In two years you can recapture that space. Today, that space, it's in a different shape now but in that location the rents are $80. Wow. So, but again, asking questions and being creative, not just being relentless, you have to figure out what is the problem and is there a way to solve it. I think that has helped me in my career a lot of times.

29:00 - Samy (Host)
I love that. I think what's interesting about what you're sharing is that most people, when they talk about what they try to do for their clients, it's we try to provide value right, and I think the word value is always like well, what does that mean? What does value look like? And I think what you're sharing is on point. It's not just value, it's being creative and understanding what's bothering them and really tapping into how you can actually help them out. So that's fantastic. Beth, if it's okay with you, I want to dig a little bit into the retail leasing aspect. I I want to dig a little bit into the retail leasing aspect. I know you've been in the market over 36 years, if I'm not mistaken. You must have seen the market evolve numerous times. Can you maybe share a little bit about what kind of trends you think are shaping the future of retail leasing?

29:43 - Beth (Host)
When I first got into the retail leasing business in a shopping center, you never did more than 10% of your space for restaurants. We didn't like them. They took up too much parking and the tenants didn't like them. You know the anchor tenants they didn't. If you look at old anchor leases it says do not put a restaurant next to me. Our world has changed since COVID. Food and beverage is the new anchor. I hope the cities get with the program on this and start understanding that with rideshare the parking codes can be eased off so that we can do more restaurants, because they're very restrictive. But so restaurants is the new anchor. You can. I can have a 42,000 square foot center and have it be an unanchored strip center, but I can have five restaurants that do $12 million and that's like having an anchor. So so restaurants are the draw. They are the internet resistant experience and that has changed in our industry significantly. The other thing that's changed in our industry is med tail right. So when I for again another persona non grata in retail was medical, you didn't want medical. You did not want people coming to the dentist and parking their car for an hour. Teeth cleaning and you know, and their cavities getting fillings. You don't want those cars sitting in that parking lot for an hour. Medtail is on the rise. You're seeing, hospitals cannot build new hospitals. They can't afford to build new hospitals, so they're shedding all of their urgent cares and podiatry centers and MRI imaging and it's all going into convenience centers like what I buy. So MedTail is on the rise. The whole experience thing since COVID, which has to do with there was a JLL did a paper like a white paper talking about competitive socializing, like a white paper talking about competitive socializing where the new Gen X or Gen Z or the new millennials, they like to go out. They're not big drinkers, they do other things, but they're not big alcohol drinkers. They still like to go out. So there's this new rise of competitive socializing which is escape rooms, little pin bowling alleys, axe throwing, pickleball with dog parks and all this stuff and that's changing the face of retail because they need more parking. My friend, chris Ressa at DLC talks about how this is the decade of franchises. There are more new franchises being created than ever before and a lot of it is in personal care, you know, like fitness and health, stretch zones and meditation and IVs and Pilates. For every use you've got three new franchises popping up so and that it's all franchise driven. So what I'm trying to get on social media for new property owners that are in you know, that are getting into retail real estate is when you get a call from Stretch Zone, it's not Stretch Zone that's signing the lease, it's Joe Smith signing the lease, and Joe Smith may have just retired and has a couple hundred grand of cash in the bank, but he's given a hundred of it to Stretch Zone. So you're not getting Stretch Zone.

33:23
A lot of people sometimes get a little swayed by the name when it's really just a local mom and pop deal. No franchisor is co-signing on a guarantee for their franchisee. So I remember early on in my career we had like a frame place and the tenant had terrible credit, bad financials, and this was like my wake-up call in franchising and the franchisor called me and said what do you mean? You're not approving my franchisee. I approved them. I'm like, yeah, you wanted the franchise fee. Are you co-signing this lease? Are you going to be around when the guy fails in three months? He has no cash and bad credit and he doesn't pay me rent and I have victim. But you got your franchise fee.

34:06
So, but I think franchising has gotten better. But I think we all need to be eyes wide open because there's also other things going on, sammy, with immigration, I know, and I think in Texas definitely in Florida which is the visa business where if you buy a franchise and you agree to hire eight people, you can get a visa for you and five members of your family. I've been burned once I haven't done it again where I did a deal with a family that bought a business and then ran it into the ground because they were never there. They didn't want the business, they just wanted the visas. We have to be careful about that.

34:45 - Samy (Host)
That is fascinating. Definitely a lot of interesting points you touched on there, so I'm curious. You know you talk about the different types of new tenants that you're looking at. Can you talk about, maybe, the importance of tenant mix in a successful retail property and what does that look like?

35:02 - Beth (Host)
It's really important because they drive each other right. I bought a shopping center and found out that the sub shop was doing killer numbers. I had asked Panera if they would come and they kept saying no, you don't have any other nationals, we're not coming. Then I find out the sales of my local sub shop and I called Panera. I go what do you think about this? Oh, we'll send you an LOI. My little sub guy was kind of mad and I said I promise you this is going to help your sales.

35:28
The more restaurants I can bring into this project, the more that the people that the hospital and the college near here think oh, it's lunchtime, where should we go? Let's just go to Shops of Arrowhead, because they have five different restaurants. We'll decide when we get there. That's what I created and he's been my tenant now, the sub guy, for since 08. And he's like oh, you were so right, you know, because before that there was not a lot of restaurants there. You know there were quite. There was like a Blue Cross, blue Shield office. I got rid of them and brought in nail salons and hair salons. I brought in a hobby store. I brought in a team apparel store, people that shop, but then also like the team apparel store. But then also like the team apparel store, that customer is men from 15 to 30. They eat subs, they eat the footlong. The nail salon, those ladies like the salads at Panera. So when I'm talking to Pilates studios, I talk about the nail salons. I don't talk about the team apparel store or the sub shop. When I did the sushi restaurant, I talked about the new acai bowl company that just signed and was killing it in sales. So it's just talking to the prospective tenants and letting them understand who the customer is that's coming in. When I after COVID, I said I had vacancy after I had like three vacancies, it was October of 2020 and Florida was open and I'm like, okay, we have a shipping supply chain problem. Toys R Us just closed and Amazon's having delays.

37:08
Parents feel guilty. I said I need a toy store in my shopping center and I have a little strip center. What toy store is going to come into my shopping center? So I looked up 15 toy stores in South Florida and I went and visited, canvassed every single one of them, dropped off a flyer and said call me no rent for Christmas. I talked to a couple of them. I put in the information. I talked to a couple of them. I put in the information call me three months free. So they called it was a hobby shop and he goes what is this? This is a scam. I go. No, it's not a scam. I own the shopping center. I think toys are going to be big for Christmas. Parents haven't been able to do summer camp trips, graduation parties, birthday parties. They're going to overbuy for Christmas.

38:01
Toys R Us closed and you can't. There's going to be last minute parents that wake up the week before Christmas and go oh crap, they're going to come to a physical store. This is like October. I'll give you October, november, december, free. He goes. What's the catch? The catch is I hope you do phenomenal business and you sign the lease in January for a long-term deal. That's what I want If you don't do phenomenal business. No harm, no foul.

38:20
He had two other locations. This guy One. He was in a shopping center that had a fire, so he wanted to get out of that one because it was a fire at the other end of the plaza, but they were waiting on insurance. It was a terrible situation. He goes well, but they were waiting on insurance. It was a terrible situation. He goes. Well, I have a lot of merchandise I can move in. Right. They moved in October 15th. They killed it in October, november, december, super high sales. When I was talking to them I walked them down to the sub shop and I walked them down to the team apparel store. I said these are your customers and he agreed and they signed. So what do you think happened? In January they signed a lease. They've been with me for five years paying market rent. They sell $300 remote control little cars but they are great because the team apparel store they're the same customer. They're doing numbers. I can't believe and it was just a creative idea during COVID.

39:16 - Samy (Host)
I love that. So I've been hearing a theme along our conversation. It sounds like you have a really in-depth understanding of your tenants' income as well. Is that something that? Is that a requirement for you when you sign a tenant?

39:31 - Beth (Host)
Yeah. So sales reporting is very important for me. Now there's national tenants, like Starbucks, that won't do it. So what happens is if I'm doing a national deal and they say we won't report our sales, I call all my friends and I go is this true? And if I find one friend that gets sales from them, then I'm going to be the dog with the boat. I'm going to get the sales. But if all my friends go, yeah, no, starbucks doesn't report sales, then I'll do the deal and I won't require it. But any local tenant I will not do a deal with a local tenant that won't give me sales. I require sales because it helps me lease the property. It also helps me know that I'm going to have a vacancy.

40:09
I mean, I had a tenant who was a major national cellular phone but it was a licensee and I saw his sales go like this and I would go. I go hey guys, what's going on? Oh, and they would make up all of these excuses. But, sure enough, within nine months they're like calling me, going, we're going to have to close. Well, I had already started marketing the space because I could see it happening and I wasn't taken by surprise. So, understanding your tenant sales and you know, the local tenants go, it's none of your business. I go excuse me, this is a $25 million asset, it is my. And then I say, why did you, why do you want to come here? And they go well, we love the traffic, I go. Well, what about the traffic? Well, we like that. You have the team apparel store and you have the sub-shore, and then you have the nails. I go, I've cultivated that, I've curated that, and how I do it is because I know what will go with who, which means I need information. The team apparel store also started as a pop-up.

41:06
I found them in a warehouse because they had signs on the median in front of my plaza that said come to get Miami Hurricane apparel. I said you need to be in my shopping center. What are you doing in a warehouse? Well, we can't afford to come. I made them a deal during football season. I said a thousand a month, you know? And I said how much are you doing in your warehouse? And they told me a number. I go, you're going to double that in my shopping center. We can't afford it. I go. If you double it, can you afford my center? Of course, they signed a lease for $1,100. They did the six-month trial. They doubled their sales from the warehouse. We ended up doing a three-year deal in the $1,100 square feet. I moved them to $2,400 square feet. They just moved into a brand new space in my center $4,500 square feet.

41:56
If I didn't know what they were doing in sales the whole time, if I wasn't able to see what was happening, I wouldn't have been able to go and say you're ready for expansion? And the first time I moved them they were scared no, we can't move. No, we can't. They were right next to the sub guy. We don't want to leave the sub guy. I'm like you can move, you're a destination. You're just going to be eight stores away. No, no, we're going to lose all. You're not going to lose all your business. But I knew I've literally taken them from eleven hundred to twenty four hundred. Now they're at forty five hundred.

42:23
He's been with me for ten years. We just had a great meeting the other day because we won the Stanley Cup. We had autographed people there and the center was just blowing up. All my food tenants were beating the people in line for the autograph and he's like if I wouldn't have listened to you, I'd still be in the warehouse. I'm passionate about finance. I want them to if they rent. Sammy is a function of sales, so the better they do, the more rent I get.

42:50 - Samy (Host)
Okay. So, beth, I want to touch on something that I've heard this spoken a lot of places and I see it, a lot of retail centers. One of the assets that I focus on primarily out here in Houston is really retail, and I know you talk a lot about the different types of tenants that you have the impulse tenant versus the destination tenant.

43:12 - Beth (Host)
Sure. So there's a lot of centers out there. I don't buy any centers that have elbows, but there are centers that were built because greedy developers that were are U-shaped and U-shaped centers. In the corners they have elbow space and and if you, I, you know travel around the country teaching leasing agents how to lease space, 90% of the vacancy in our retail space around the country are in the elbows. So why is that? It's because they don't have the visibility and exposure that tenants need. All tenants want the number one thing they want is visibility and exposure. They want to have as big a signage as possible and as much visibility as possible.

43:53
And if you are that tenant that's stuck 3,000 square feet in the elbow with very little signage, that's a problem. So who do you need to put in those elbow spaces? You cannot put impulse tenants. You can't put the ice cream guy in the corner because you're driving, the mom and the kids are oh, let's see. Oh, look, ice cream, let's stop. They're not going to see that sign. It's set back, he's in the corner and it's tiny.

44:19
Now, if you're the dentist, if you're the gym, gymnastic studio, where you have a monthly membership, or you're going to a class, if it's the chiropractor, if it's the pediatric, you know therapy. If it's a massage where it's, you know it's it's, you have an appointment. You can put all of those appointment membership places in the elbow because you're going to drive by 30 shopping centers, because you're going to the address of your destination. So every shopping center is made up of destination and impulse uses. So sometimes when you're a new leasing agent, you make the mistake. When H&R Block calls you for the end cap, you're just happy to sign a lease so you put H&R Block on the end cap.

45:09
H&r Block should never go on the end cap. First of all, they're only open three months of the year, so they do nothing for your property and you're putting them in the best space. But again you're new, you're just happy to get a lease signed and fill vacancy. So I always say you have to be smarter and convince H&R Block, for $5 less a square foot to go off of the end cap and go in the elbow. Now I say look, if H&R Block wants to pay me $20 more than market, they can have the end cap.

45:41
I'm not stupid, but it's you know. I've done coaching assignments where I show up at the property and the physical therapist is on the end cap or the karate studio is on the end cap, and my clients why can't I lease the elbow? Well, let's move the physical therapist who's, you know, just has one big open office and their destination into the end cap. And then I say to the leasing agent how many calls do you get from impulse usage? Because I get calls all the time but I don't have any space. Yeah, because you filled the best space for impulse tenants with destination tenants.

46:18 - Samy (Host)
So I imagine that when you sign your leases you must put some clauses in there that you're able to move them, or For sure, Relocation clauses is as important as the sales reporting clauses.

46:30 - Beth (Host)
But I don't buy shopping centers that have elbows, I only buy shopping centers that are one long strip center and so for those, the end caps. Everyone wants the end cap, they want to be on the end. If you can get a drive-through, that's great. But I don't have to worry too much about destination and impulse because I don't buy shopping centers. I don't buy shopping centers that have a building in front of a building and then that makes that space a destination space. It's hard to lease those spaces.

47:01
I bought a shopping center on the out parcel of a mall in South Florida called Sawgrass Mills Mall. 28 million people, it's the second most tourist destination behind Disney World. Well, I bought a strip center. I loved it. Well, I had four out parcels in front of me that the developer had sold off. So I had a Wendy's, an Arby's, a car wash and an oil loop. It was impossible to leave. My entire shopping center was a destination space because those four-hour parcels blocked all my visibility and exposure. That's why 95% of all of the vacant space in the country are spaces that need to be filled by destination tenants.

47:43 - Samy (Host)
Got it. So there's got to be a lot more canvassing. That's done for those destination tenants.

47:48 - Beth (Host)
Yeah, you got to go find them.

47:49 - Samy (Host)
I want to just ask one last question and kind of shift this before we wrap up. One of the most important things that I like to really tap into, especially on this podcast, is finding the intersection between relationships and commercial real estate. How do you approach building relationships in general in the industry?

48:11 - Beth (Host)
So early on, I did a lot of lunches and dinners, especially with women. I had a small group of women four of us and I used to say we need to invite more women and my core group was like no, we're good with the four, I go. No, we have to share this. I have this saying coordinate the uncoordinated. So when I first started doing social media, I said I've got to learn from other people. Let me see who's doing social media in our industry. There weren't that many of us in South Florida, but I found four or five people and I invited them all to a lunch and I said let's meet quarterly and talk what's working, what's not working, what did we try, what are we going to try? And I, we we probably had that group for four years and you know it was Barry Wolf, with Marcus and Millichap and he's a top broker and he, I said, did not do anything in social media. And I said you have all of this access to all of these reports, all of this information. You do great on social media. He's great, so you should follow him. So, with relationships and building relationships, I think that I have a women's trip that I, every year, 40 women travel. You know, relationships are built on experiences more than just a phone call. So I just helped. I well, I helped, I strongly encouraged and kind of pushed three young women in Miami into creating something called the CRE Supper Club. I kept asking them to do it. They kept posting on their Instagrams all of these great restaurants in Miami that were opening and I said oh, you know, you guys should start a CRE Supper Club. They're like yeah, no, yeah, no, no. And then finally one day they were posting pictures. I go this looks like a great location for our next CRE Supper Club. The CRE Supper Club was born and we've probably done over a year a year, once a month, and there's 10 to 20 people that get together and try out great new restaurants in Miami and I'm meeting new people every time I show up because they curate great new people. But relationships, I think, are built on experiences and not just phone calls or emails. So I think it's just important to get out of your office and be in front of people. So that's how I've built my career.

50:39
At one point I said it seems like a lot of my friends' sons are getting in the business, and so I had my intern. I said create a list of all of the people's sons that are in the business. And there were like 47 of them, so I invited them all to a lunch. I think 20 showed up and I said you guys have something so unique. Your dads are in the business. Some of you work for your dads. Some of you, your dads own the companies. You're going to inherit the companies, your experiences, you are going to rely on each other. It's just so unique. You should create this group and grow this group.

51:19
And I said we can call it e-hosts, which in Spanish is sons, and I said okay, I'm not a son and I'm a woman and you guys are all guys, so you need to take this and run with it. And one of the guys said, yeah, okay, we'll do it. And it kind of died. You know they did. They had like a poker night and a fishing trip and then they kind of let it peter out. But about a year ago I had two interns they were both sons and I told them about the idea and they they loved it and they restarted it and now it's going a little bit stronger. But you know, I like small group networking. You know where, like, like, I like to hang out with you know, florida State alumni. I like to hang out with women who invest. I like to hang out with women who like to travel, right, so I like to hang out with retail people. So I think it's super important to find niches and then grow relationships in your niches. I love that.

52:18 - Samy (Host)
I read a book not long ago, one of the greatest books that have shaped how I interact with people, and especially in larger settings. It's a book called the Art of Gathering by an author named Priya Parker, and it very much touches on a lot of points that you mentioned and I would highly recommend it for anyone who's looking to create any sort of gatherings or meetings or host little meetups. It's incredible and I think you're extremely intentional about the way that you go about gathering people. You don't just put people in a room, but you're very thoughtful about that, so that's awesome. Just to wrap up, a kind of rapid fire questions I love to get to know people a little bit. Just on a deeper level, what's one thing that you do every day to start your morning off right?

53:04 - Beth (Host)
I read three newspapers, I watch CNBC and I drink my coffee and I do the New York Times connections puzzle. That's my first hour.

53:15 - Samy (Host)
I love that, all right. And what's a hobby or interest that you have outside of work?

53:20 - Beth (Host)
So I love to read both fiction and nonfiction. I'm a huge reader. I'm flying to Paris tonight and when I hang up I'm going to Barnes Noble because I'm going to get three fiction romance novels to read on my trip and they have books. I don't like Kindles, I want books. So they're heavy. They'll be in my backpack One will be in my backpack and the other two will be in my luggage and I love film. I love my boys and I. We go to every Marvel and DC and star Wars opening night like at midnight, but when they used to be like Thursday nights at midnight, we, I take them all. So we, um, we love, uh, film and movies.

54:02 - Samy (Host)
That's awesome.

54:03 - Beth (Host)
I'm a big marvel fan, so I gotta check out my son's podcast he has a podcast on marvel he's in la making a living off the payroll talking about marvel dc and star wars. It's called the escape pod podcast.

54:19 - Samy (Host)
Check it out I will check that out. Awesome, all right, thanks for sharing that. Um, all right, so well, I'm talking about that. That what's a book or podcast that you've been enjoying lately?

54:29 - Beth (Host)
So the most recent book that I loved is called 10X is Easier Than 2X Phenomenal, great, great, great. Check it out.

54:37 - Samy (Host)
And lastly, Bess, what is one piece of advice that you would give to younger selves?

54:42 - Beth (Host)
Don't listen to others. Do your research, do your homework, gain the market knowledge. I can drive by seven pieces of property that I wanted to buy that men older, richer, more experienced men talked me out of it. And all seven of them are sitting looking like I would have what my plan was. But I let people talk me out of it, so I don't do that anymore. I don't ask for any co-signing.

55:09
If I have done my research, I've learned I'm a really good picker and I just go for it. But I make sure that I've checked all the boxes, done my due diligence, and then I just keep going. But I had properties under contract. I couldn't raise the money, but I let them kind of seep into my soul of insecurity and so I gave up too easily because I thought, well, they're richer and smarter and more experienced, they must know better. But they didn't. And all seven of them and you know you're not supposed to look back, but I drive by them in South Florida going. Oh. But it fuels my confidence that I know how to pick real estate and so now I don't ask for any cosigns, I just go do it.

55:52 - Samy (Host)
I love that. That's a great piece of advice, Bess. I really, really appreciate your time today. Where can people find Beth Azor and learn more about the Canvassing Queen?

56:03 - Beth (Host)
So Twitter, instagram, linkedin probably the best places, and on most of those I have my email if they wanted to reach out directly.

56:12 - Samy (Host)
Thank you for joining us again for another episode of the Commercial Real Estate Connection Podcast and we look forward to catching you in the next episode.