The CRE Connection · Samy Soussan

00:00 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Welcome to the Commercial Real Estate Connection Podcast, the place where we connect with the brightest minds in commercial real estate, uncovering their secrets, strategies and captivating stories. I'm your host, sami Sousan, here to serve as your guide and connector-in-chief on this exciting journey. Together, we'll dive deep into the world of commercial real estate, exploring the ins and outs of this dynamic industry. Our goal is to discover the true power of meaningful connections along the way, so get ready to plug in, engage and elevate your commercial real estate journey. Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Commercial Real Estate Connection Podcast. We have today two really exciting guests.

00:38
For anyone who knows me well, I have a soft spot for marketing and I love learning about how marketing functions and how how much it impacts the business that we do on a day-to-day basis and I would venture to say probably is one of the most important parts of commercial real estate. And so today we have two very special guests. We got Shannon Bettinger as well as Ashlyn Wooten. Shannon is from Seven Rivers Marketing and Consulting and Ashlyn Wooten from Jabber Two incredible women who have gone out and have created their own commercial real estate marketing firms, and I'm really, really excited to host you guys. So welcome to the show, ladies. Thank you, sammy.

01:17 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Yeah, thank you for having us. We're big fans of your show.

01:20 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Awesome. So what we'll do is we'll kind of, if everyone wants to go and just give a brief, a little brief background about you, how you kind of got started into in real estate and how this took you to where you are, where you are, today. How about Shannon? How about we start with?

01:33 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
you Sounds good. So I actually have a master's of architecture Funny that I'm not practicing with it, right. But that's where I started, and when I first got out of graduate school, I started in the architecture field and I realized pretty quickly that I wanted I love the strategy side of architecture and the design side, and so I ended up moving to another firm and I was in their marketing department and the bells just kind of went off. That's really where I knew I wanted to lean into marketing and design more. So I ended up meeting my first commercial real estate boss shout out to Chip Clark with TransWestern at an event, and the rest was sort of history. I jumped in at TransWestern without any commercial real estate experience and by the time I left, 13 years later, I had started just as me, with me doing all of the regional marketing, and when I left I had grown a team where we were working on national pursuits, winning national awards and many of them are still there, which they're amazing, so shout out to them as well.

02:44
But I spent a large majority of my career at TransWestern and I loved it so much because I was. I felt like it was a really a combination of working with contractors, architects, designers, brokerage, but then I also learned so much on the corporate third-party leasing side. So it was when I ended up leaving. It was really due to the opportunity that was presented from Midway, which was for me. I wanted to experience the landlord ownership side, so I started with Midway two weeks before COVID hit.

03:22
So I really it was a really incredible time to try and start somewhere and learn your team virtually and learn all the assets, and it was really looking back. It feels like 10 years now. But and then with the new venture that they just went through with Parkway, I became CMO of Parkway and oversaw their national portfolio and all the different markets that they were in. So deciding to leave was bittersweet, but I did. I just had, like Ashlyn, a desire to try the entrepreneurship side of the business and jump out and see where things go. So I'm really excited to be at this place in my career almost 20 years later, sad to say.

04:08 - Samy Soussan (Host)
That's exciting. So 20 years and then you begin your entrepreneurial spirit. That's when it starts coming out. Your journey is just beginning. That's really exciting. I'm excited to see where that takes you.

04:20 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Thanks for sharing that.

04:21 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Ashlyn, how about you Give us a little bit of background about you?

04:24 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Yeah, so, similar to Shannon, I have brokerage and development marketing experience, but I actually, instead of starting on the architecture side, I started as an agent, like a real estate agent myself. So straight out of school, that's what I decided to do at 22 is go and try to sell houses and quickly realized that I liked the marketing piece of it, but I wasn't the best at negotiating and I feel like that's it's funny, because now, being like a business owner, I'm having to get back into that in some ways. But I feel like I've learned a lot from different mentors throughout my career. But started as an agent. I did mainly residential. I did get to touch some of the commercial though, so that was my first taste of it and realized, like I said, that I love the marketing piece.

05:10
So then I moved to a brokerage doing their marketing a boutique, smaller firm and then moved to a digital marketing agency where I worked on all real estate clients because of my extensive real estate background, kidding about the extensive part, but they put me on all real estate clients because of my extensive real estate background.

05:25
Kidding about the extensive part, but they put me on all the real estate clients because I was the only one that knew anything about real estate at the group. So that's really what got me integrated into a lot of the different aspects of the industry, like the design side, and I was doing a lot of proposals for interior design bids and PR for big brokerages all commercial my first time working with lifestyle centers, multifamily, I mean a little bit of everything so got to see a big picture view of all the different options and then I actually went out on my own after that. So this is my second time doing it in the last couple of years. One of my clients, which you're familiar with, was a development firm here in town. They were just very persuasive so I ended up going in-house with them, felt like I learned a lot about leasing and the landlord side of things and the development process a little bit more hands-on than I had previously. So I finally felt like I was ready to take it back on and here we are.

06:28 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I love that. So each of you clearly have very unique paths. That took you to a similar moment. I'm intrigued Can you guys share a little bit, each one individually, about what your respective strengths are and kind of what your focuses are going to be individually? And let's start with Shannon, let's start with you.

06:46 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, so we've talked a lot about this actually, because when we announced our collaboration, it, you know, both of us landed at the same spot, just sort of organically, and we realized that our experiences are different but we overlap in different ways, which makes a great, you know, collaboration and great opportunities to help different clients. But I will be able to provide more independent level services. So anything strategy, you know, breaking into new markets, national media plans, business plans, annual reports, you know, team restructuring, things like that, and then, alongside of that, the project marketing strategy, which was where Ashlyn and I will team up.

07:35 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Yeah strategy, which was where Ashlyn and I will team up. Yeah, I feel like I've always wanted Jabber to help digitize the industry of it. I find it fascinating, especially with the way the market's gone. But I don't know about Shannon I'd love to hear her perspective on this. But when I first started out in real estate marketing, I was told multiple times just put up a sign and it will sell, put up a sign and it will lease, and it was very like I think marketing hasn't been taken. I mean, it's been taken seriously, but it hasn't been needed in the way that it is.

08:04
In today's environment, where there are a lot of people that aren't driving sites like they used to, there's a lot of different avenues to get in front of people and I'd love to see the industry continue to push that direction. So that's really I'm more like on the digital side of things and the nitty gritty of. I love data, I love looking at metrics. I love when we send out an e-blast, like looking at who's interacted with it, like what they could be shopping for, what tenant could be good here. So using my agent, I guess mind and background, but applying that for marketing and helping groups in that way. But, like Shannon said, we both bring these different perspectives that will help projects, because she loves the branding and the big picture and how that fits into the community and I love thinking about how do we help support them in leasing it and getting it sold in front of the right audience and leveraging all those softwares today that a lot of groups just aren't.

09:01 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, A lot of so many different softwares out there, but really like looking at the ROI on the spend and what you know what value the marketing is actually generating is really where I'm super intrigued. And then also showcasing clients where their spend is not necessary and where they could pull back, or where they are maybe potentially overspending and not getting great value.

09:28 - Samy Soussan (Host)
That's interesting. So it sounds like your individual strengths are kind of going to complement each other.

09:34 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
I'd love to hear what, what you guys think, what unique advantages that's going to bring to your clients and the real estate market. I will say that Ashlyn and I both talk we've talked a lot about you know this industry. To begin with, it's very niche, right, and so we've both bringing our own experiences and what we've learned to the table. There's a lot of independents out there that don't really have commercial real estate expertise, right, and so when you align both of us together and what we're both bringing to the table, we feel like we are, you know, a notch above maybe an independent group that hasn't really dabbled in commercial real estate to begin with. But also we don't want to be a long-term solution. We want to really jump in when the need is there. Our job is really done, when we've solved their problems and we can exit the project. So we're not. We don't want to be a replacement for a full-time hire, necessarily. We want to solve their problems and elevate their marketing and say help, save them money.

10:43 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Essentially, I love that. Everyone loves to save money.

10:49 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
I'll add just a little bit to that is like I think part of that real estate expertise is we understand the nitty gritty of like this is an investment and it's a deal and there needs to be value on all the different components and so so far in the industry up until now has had only like a handful of options. Really, it's like build out this marketing team, in-house leverage third parties that maybe don't have that expertise. So it takes a little bit more like management. Yeah, and some groups they just it doesn't make sense for them to hire a marketing person. They're just not at that point. It's a big investment to bring on someone in that capacity. So we're just hoping to just be, like Shannon said, like there when you need us and on call when you don't. Super easy, just give us a call or quick email and we can can just jump in because we understand exactly where you're at and what you're trying to do.

11:37 - Samy Soussan (Host)
That's awesome. So here's what I love about that there's not only a fiscal advantage, right, it's not just the financial aspect that people are saving on, but it's also many times when you're bringing on a new marketing hire or a new team. There's a lot of onboarding that goes on. It requires a tremendous amount of work to train, bring them on, make sure that they understand your vision, and having a third party who not only understands marketing but understands the value that marketing contributes to real estate in particular, I think it's going to be really, really intriguing and I'm excited to hear more about that. So I'm curious to hear from you guys what are some challenges that you've faced in general in marketing for commercial real estate. I know each of you have your respective areas of expertise, but I'd love to hear what are some of the most significant challenges maybe you faced in marketing and how you kind of helped in addressing those challenges.

12:35 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
So, yeah, you know me, I'm always thinking about, like, how to optimize things, so I noticed a lot of the challenges.

12:42
I would say, though, like what we're doing together is what I would say trying to combat the biggest challenge in my eyes, which is especially on the development side.

12:51
Projects can have a lot of moments of silence while they're doing things that aren't ready for to be marketed out in the public, so it doesn't always make sense to have things like in the press and on social and like on your website and getting pushed out in ads.

13:07
It's like that's not every phase of the project, that's just one or two specific phases of a master, huge project. So I feel like being strategic and hitting things, like getting them out there at the right moment, but also putting enough thought and effort and strategy into it that you're kind of having to adapt all the time, like sometimes you've been weekly on things that are changing, and so you have to be able to take a long-term strategy and adjust that weekly, monthly, whatever that looks like, and sometimes that means you're on pause. Sometimes you're having to rev things up really quickly so you can get it out, and because timing is everything, just like people say, time kills deals. I think sometimes marketing I mean people understand that it takes time, but being able to work quickly, maneuver projects strategically, I think that's the biggest challenge for these long-term developments.

13:59 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, I think honestly it's a hard question because it depends sort of in the cycle of my career. But I would say, overall, I think the market cycles have been just ever since I've gotten out of graduate school. It's been, you know, up and down, up and down, up and down, but it seems like marketing, which is great for us. But marketing is always in need, especially in a down market, because it seems like people just want to compete to stand out even more. So when you're tasked with providing a higher level of marketing with a lower amount of resources or a budget, you just have to get really creative and innovative. It's not a bad challenge, it's just difficult, and I feel like even in today's market environment it's just seems uncertain. There's a lot of things changing day by day, and so it just it's difficult, but it's a good challenge, just something that we do face as marketers, for sure.

14:58 - Samy Soussan (Host)
So timing is key and just being on top of all their deals. Here's one of the things that I've noticed. Sometimes we drive to some of the, I guess, more rural areas and there are, as you mentioned, ashlyn, a lot of perhaps developers that are buying some land out there. How do you guys go about pitching the services that you're now going to be providing? What are the benefits that you're going to come and provide to those developers? They're like you know, we have this land that's out there. We're just going to leave it and see what happens. Are there opportunities for you guys to explore in those perhaps untapped markets? Can you guys share a little bit about what your thoughts are on that?

15:39 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, we're actually looking. My goal is to expand and do some work out of Houston for sure. So we've already got some potential proposals we're presenting this week actually in San Antonio and some leads in Austin. But I live down south and Ashlyn's from. We're both from the same area, so we have some contacts down in Clear Lake, friendswood area that we're going to tap into. But we would love to lean on our network and hit some of the outlier sub markets as well. There is a lot of growth happening for sure and I think we've we also realized that this, this industry, is so heavily relationship driven that we can't we just can't ignore that. And between both of us we have a lot of great contacts that we're we're going to try and reach out to and make sure we're in front of.

16:32 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
And I'll expand I feel like I don't think there's really much difference.

16:36
I know that there is, but between a developer that's doing something out in the suburbs versus inner loop or urban, I feel like the approach to marketing is actually pretty similar, because in real estate marketing, I feel like there's all these different phases, like research and development, and then you're strategizing based off of who you're trying to get in front of and when, how you're positioning yourself in the market, what's going to make sense, and then it's implementing, designing, developing all of those materials and then releasing it, tracking your analytics, following up.

17:06
So I would say I don't think it's much different. So that's why we're really open to whoever is looking to streamline their process and get some more support on their deal flows, on a marketing sense, or get their name out there. It could be suburbs, it could be Dallas, austin, across the US, anything like that. But I feel like just a group that understands the different phases is really it's important that you have someone that can see all the phases and then help you with whichever ones you're needing, even if you have an internal team or someone else to help with actually delivering it.

17:41 - Samy Soussan (Host)
So it's going to require a lot of networking, a lot of connecting with people, a lot of what we do in commercial real estate. Right, it's really being out there, putting yourselves out there, not just working from a computer, but really, you know, getting a lot of face time with people and helping them understand that there is this opportunity out there.

18:01 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
I'm excited for that.

18:02 - Samy Soussan (Host)
So here's a question that I think, Ashlyn, you had mentioned what would surprise people most about commercial real estate marketing? I'm really intrigued by that.

18:11 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Well, I feel like. I feel like there's a lot, but I think it's how much goes into it? Yeah, because you have to excel at it. I think it takes a lot of experience and I'm not like the most seasoned person by any means, but even like I said earlier like working in a brokerage and then working with all these different groups across the different areas of the industry and then going to a development firm the reason I kept going and trying new things is because once you're in it, you realize that there's all these layers of complexities that you didn't even know existed before and that shifts your mind and helps mold your marketing perspective of how to maneuver your pitch, your sell, whatever that is.

18:53
It's like getting to see how people think, and I think a lot of people underestimate marketing but yet they understand that it's a part of every deal. For sure, it's part of every brand. It comes into play, but I don't think it's a forward part of that. When people are thinking about it, I think they'd be really surprised how much we're thinking about it constantly. For the things that you know. You're like, oh look, that's in the news or that post, whatever. But a lot went into even getting it up to that point and that's part of a much bigger picture.

19:25 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Shannon walk me through some of those stages, some of those things that again that do surprise people and there's so much work that does go behind into creating marketing campaigns and strategies. Can you walk me through a couple of those pieces?

19:40 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, I mean the last five years really focusing on development. I would come into projects in the very beginning or in the middle or even sometimes at the end, depending on the phase of activation. But I mean, some of these products are years in the making and if pre-leasing thresholds aren't hit or returns aren't being given on when the cycle is expected, it's a lot of pressure and marketing really tends to feel that pressure because it's this need to do more, to do more. So we're always trying to be innovative and come up with activation ideas to get you know if it's a public pricing project to get people to the site, or if it's under construction, you know who, how can we get this in front of the right audience to generate leasing. So it's really just, it's very goal-driven, depending on what your investment thesis is and what you're trying to achieve. I would say that's really cool.

20:40 - Samy Soussan (Host)
What I'm curious to hear more about is you know you mentioned your ROI on software and how that applies to people that are investing in those softwares. How do people how do they create their ROI when it comes to marketing? How do they create their ROI when it comes to marketing? Right, like people obviously have to look at well, I'm going to, if I'm going to, invest in a independent marketing and consulting firm, how am I going to get my return on my investment over there?

21:03 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
That's really. That's a service that I do provide, sammy, is you know if a group is, if their marketing is really struggling and they don't understand what's going wrong, you know I can seamlessly integrate and do a value synopsis on what spends they are doing, whether it's software or personnel or merch I mean it could be vendors that they're spending on. It could be so many different things, but really, when I say optimize ROI, I mean looking at all their channels and their growth and it really boils down to what strategy and goals they're trying to achieve and optimizing the cash that's being put out and what returns they're getting. So that is something that I've done in my role as CMO and I hope to continue to do it for other clients, but it's a whole process.

21:57 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
I'll add to that so much of marketing is very dependent on what the client's wanting, and so a lot of times, like something that happens is clients will come and say you know, what do you suggest we spend and how much time should we account for for this to happen? And the reality is like, sure, we can make suggestions of what would be ideal, but we can work with many different budget ranges. So it's like you could have a very limited budget. You could have a very extensive budget, you could have a very tight timeline, a super long drawn out timeline. It's like marketing is meant to fill whatever you're giving us. But that is something that we get asked a lot is what should we account for this costing? And that's where Shannon's expertise comes into play, as she's been able to see all these projects and she can give like an average, or at least what she's experienced. She can kind of know if it's on par or not.

22:50 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
And if it's public, you know if it's a project that's open to the public, I guess, going back to the software thing you mentioned, you know a lot of companies pay for tracking softwares that you can track how many foot people you have on site with their cell phones and they're paying you know a really high amount of money for these types of tracking. But if there's nobody really analyzing the metrics and applying it to what the strategy is to get the people there, then you're really not optimizing what you're paying for. Does that make sense?

23:26 - Samy Soussan (Host)
that makes a lot of sense. The software is is just, as it's only going to be useful to give you the data, but you definitely need someone implementing and executing.

23:35 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
There could be an annual event calendar that you're analyzing high end or what you know specific event drew the most people in and tie it you know, tie it all back to the dollars that are being spent, and so it's very interesting when you can look at the data and go from that perspective.

23:55 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I love that. I love that. So I know that the commercial real estate market is constantly evolving and, as someone who's been in the industry for over 20 years, how do you kind of see the roles of perhaps digital and traditional marketing changing? Right, I'm sure there are some trends that you guys are following, and are there any trends that commercial real estate professionals should be aware of as the market shifts?

24:21 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, I did just publish an article with ULI about AI and how it's transforming the commercial real estate industry or landscape. So shout out to you a lot if you want to read it. But honestly, for me, I'm still trying to learn a lot about it, but I am seeing it is affecting daily work output, so as far as a marketing lens, but also it's being used in many different aspects of commercial real estate. So we're seeing it being used in rent trajectories, in optimizing rent and multifamily. Obviously, investment teams are looking at potential deals that may have not been sourced before through AI capabilities.

25:05
And then there's a fear that AI will be replacing people. And then you know there's a fear that AI will be replacing people, but I can even say for my own use, you still have to be able to understand and tell it what you want and what results you're looking for, and then take the data and be able to analyze it in the appropriate method. So I do think that it is going to shift the industry. I think a lot of people are still trying to understand it and learn what it can do, but I would say in the next 12 to 24 months, my thought is that we'll see a huge uptick with it in this industry.

25:42 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Yeah, I mean I agree with all of that. I feel like the use of just the digital platforms. I think you'd be surprised. But if we started viewing real estate kind of like in the lens that retail does and not retail real estate but selling products online, I feel like the industry is like moving a little bit in that direction. So just really getting refined on your online presence, how you're getting in front of those people, how you're following up with people, tracking everything, very data heavy I feel like that's been a trend and it will continue to go that direction.

26:16
So groups that haven't invested into that or looked into it yet I think that's step one would be looking at how you can get online, get in front of a whole different audience of people. I also think from the real estate side, like I know, in Houston, we're a very unique market. We don't have zoning and the areas of town are all very different. So I do think, like placemaking, things like that are going to continue to be a huge movement and there's a lot of marketing involved in that, because when you're bringing community and neighborhood together with real estate projects, you have to understand what the community wants and how you're getting in front of those people. So even at that level, once the deal is done, there's so much marketing that's going to have to be done afterwards to make sure that there's long-term success.

27:00 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Love that. So you mentioned earlier that both marketing and real estate development involve multiple phases. Can you guys share a little bit about how do you parallel your marketing phases with real estate development stages to maximize the impact and the results that your marketing is essentially creating?

27:19 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
I would say the marketing needs to fit into the project. So, wherever that is just having really really solid communication between the brokers you're working with, the developers you're working with and what their goal is. I find in marketing sometimes you have to really simplify the question who are you trying to reach? What is your goal with your project? And then that's where we come in. Is okay? Well, if this is your goal, then we need to go this direction. It's going to take this long. There's all these factors. So I think really really strong communication is really really important and defining those phases and how it fits in. But I mean, the reality is every project is different. There's different people involved, different personalities, different desires, different budgets, timelines, markets. We know those questions to ask and asking them up front so we can set everyone up for success.

28:08 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, I would just add on. Ashlyn nailed it. I will just add on quickly that there's different tools we would use, clearly if it's in pre-development versus a brand new district that's being open to the public. So there's just different marketing tools in our arsenal depending on where the project is, if it's pre-construction, under construction, to after delivery.

28:36 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I love that. So a lot of phases when it comes to development, and it seems that for marketing it's just as complex. It's very nuanced. Nothing is just wash, rinse and repeat. It's very much hand-holding with your clients and really integrating yourselves into their visions, into how they're planning on executing on their business. I love, Ash, what you mentioned about communication and I'd love for you guys maybe to elaborate more about that, on what are some of the challenges that when it comes to communication or, you know, working with real estate professionals, is there anything that you guys have seen that have been, you know, that kind of create, I guess, different expectations perhaps of what, what you're trying to accomplish? Shannon, I'd love to hear your perspective on that from working with, I know, a company like Parkway and Midway would love to hear some of that.

29:23 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Yeah, and also I Transwestern this was a huge part of my role there but so I have a special place in my heart for comms and media and I hope to do more of it with Seven Rivers again, but I will. You know everything from crisis PR to just project launches. I would just say that it's so. It's very nuanced, right. So, depending on, like we talked about earlier, the goals of the client, some clients really don't want their name in the press, but then others want it everywhere. So I would say, a challenge with communication is just understanding the needs, but our priority is really just being, like you said, a part of their vision and executing on what their, their desires are for their, for that particular project. So we want to just be a resource and we're as passionate about these things as they are, especially when it comes to media.

30:21 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
For me, it's my yeah my sweet spot, Media is a big one, because that's the public, can shape public perception and what they're choosing to put out about projects. I think too mean, just like shannon mentioned, it's like even breaking down what she said. It's not as simple as saying, like do you want to be in the press or not? Like I think even those conversations are very nuanced because you have to ask, like understand firstly what they're trying to do and then also understanding what it means to be in the press for that particular step of their project. So it's like if you're trying to acquire a bunch of different pieces of land in different pockets, you probably I mean you might want to put that in the press, but a lot of people will not want to put that in the press or out on social media or any of those public-facing channels. It just depends on where you're at.

31:09
So it's really like breaking it down to what's your vision, what's your goals company level, project level and why are you looking to invest in marketing? I think that's one of the first questions I always ask people. It's like why do you want marketing? And they'll tell you it's I want to build my company, I want to extend my brand to other markets, like whatever that is, and then we can take that and say, okay, well, I'll make suggestions based off of only that or that and supporting things versus. You know, everyone's going to be different. So even if we worked with people in the past that have a similar positioning, the outcome and what they're looking for can be completely opposite.

31:48 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I love that so many various factors of the industry are dependent on marketing and I think and correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of times when people say, you know, hear the word marketing, they kind of like the marketing is just I don't know, just posting something on LinkedIn, right, that's marketing. Or or shoving a sign into the ground and that's marketing, right. Can discuss, like, what are the various aspects to marketing and, in particular, how they they fit in with real estate? I know there's you mentioned media. You guys share the different steps and you know, feel free to chime in whoever would like to yeah, there's definitely media.

32:25 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
comms plan is a big one. Events, digital, social media, corporate communication, signage, branding what am I forgetting, ashlyn? The list can go on and on.

32:39 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
There's a lot of people invited to the party. But it really breaks down in real estate to project and brand and you have pretty much everything in both. But that's your first question is like is this a brand marketing piece or is this a project marketing piece? Because, for example, brand is going to be your company, your entity, your positioning, all of those things, how you want to be perceived, who you're trying to get in front of, what kind of deals you're trying to do. All of that your project is going to be like. It's kind of like one is b2b and one is b2c, so you have getting in front of the community, the people, consumers coming to, come shop at the store that you're putting into that development. So that's like they all break out and then, just like Shannon was saying, I mean it's all these different like digital, and then even within digital there's like paid and then organic and it all depends on what they're trying to do. But I think.

33:29 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I think it's just it's fascinating because you mentioned marketing and it's like almost it's it's its own behemoth. It has so much, it has so many moving parts and, like you said, someone calls you up and they're like hey shannon, hey ashlyn, I want to do some marketing for my company. And you really have to kind of dig deep and help them understand, like, what are your objectives?

33:54 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
What are your?

33:54 - Samy Soussan (Host)
goals A hundred percent. That's really really interesting to me.

33:58 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Well, and also like how I like to explain it to people that aren't marketing savvy, because I mean, that's why they're coming to us, right, so they're not expected to be marketing savvy, but it's like, just like you as a person, you choose to say certain things, to communicate certain ways, to dress a certain way. That's the same thing for your brand or project, so, but they're not necessarily thinking about it because it hasn't been personified yet. So that's where the marketing comes in, as we're trying to personify these things, give them personality, give them an identity. So people can say like, oh, that's such and such project with a name and this is the characteristics of that project. So I mean, just like you were saying, we have to dig that out sometimes because they don't have an identity yet.

34:44 - Samy Soussan (Host)
That's fascinating. So one last question before we kind of get into a couple of personal stuff, but what's one piece of advice that you guys would offer to people, or in particular commercial real estate professionals that are looking to amp up their marketing and learn more about that? What would you guys recommend for someone looking to learn more about that?

35:06 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Well for the industry itself.

35:08
Something I've always passed along that somebody told me years ago was, if you're really trying to understand more about commercial real estate, that the first place that I would suggest going is just getting like the HPJ or whatever market you're in the local publications and maybe old school, but I still like a printed copy of it so I can really look and you start to see who the players are in the market and understanding what deals are hot or what events you should could be a part of.

35:43
I mean, it's really it's not rocket science, but I just don't think a lot of people take the time to do it anymore and so I even still do it. I will follow people on LinkedIn that you know are being published in deals. It's just it's not time intensive, but it is a really great learning tool to understand your market For marketing specifically, to learn more about the latest and greatest. I would really encourage people to just start diving into AI, because it's everywhere that I'm seeing marketing trends. Just begin to understand what it is, what it is doing, not even in the real estate landscape, but in general. Those are two pieces of advice I would give for someone looking to learn more.

36:33 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I love it. So sometimes the traditional way is the best way, right? I mean, yeah, no, I love that. I feel like you're right, people don't we get in our office. We receive, you know, probably the HBJ and lots of other articles and you know and pieces, and not everyone takes time to read them. But you're right, If they're out there being produced, then there's definitely what to learn from about them.

36:56 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
We're just bombarded from the moment we wake up right with online stuff, you know, whether it's sales driven or articles, or so you just have to be intentional. I guess is my point If you're trying to learn more and find the places where you can really seek out those nuggets of good information.

37:18 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Awesome. One of the things I always like to ask everyone is what is one piece of advice you'd give to someone who's looking to build strong relationships in the real estate industry? What would you guys think about that?

37:30 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Well, I think how we met is a great example. A lot of people would probably think that someone that was working in title and working in marketing wouldn't necessarily overlap and connect. My piece of advice would be being open to every connection, and if you see someone that like Sammy, you kill it on LinkedIn, and so I was very familiar with who you were. And if you see someone that like Sammy, you kill it on LinkedIn, and so I was very familiar with who you were, and so when we got a chance to connect, I was like, oh my gosh, this is awesome, like excited to meet Sammy, and it's developed into a wonderful relationship over time.

38:03
I just think it's some people can get so a little too targeted of who they want to interact with and who they want to network with and meet and all these things, and I think there's a place for that. But I also feel it's just being open, being flexible, being yourself, knowing what you're wanting out of these things that you're involving yourself in If you want to extend your network. It's just showing up, saying yes to the events, joining the committees. That's how shannon and I met was on a uli committee, and now look at us, we're here. We've had a good relationship, so I feel like your own company.

38:39
Yeah, yeah, a lot of great connections from just getting involved well then, shannon, what about you?

38:45 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
you know, these days I'm I'm trying to be more intentional, sammy, so I feel like there's so many events right and to spend your time and for me I have two young children so in a commute, so I try and really pick what I feel like is most beneficial. I do love being involved in organizations, like Ashlyn said, so I would just suggest you know people find what they're passionate about and really try and dig in there, whether it's a committee or you know one event a month, because you can really burn yourself out pretty quick. So be intentional about what you do, attend and have a purpose and a passion, I would say, with that group.

39:30 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I love that. All right, so just to kind of get a little bit personal and get to know you guys a little better. But what is one thing that each of you do to every day to start your morning off right?

39:41 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
This sounds silly, but when I love to listen to music and I'll just stretch and take some deep breaths, I think, before my day really begins. Obviously coffee, but just having some intentional time to reflect, because I do feel extremely fortunate to be able to have my own business. So just, even when things are getting hectic, just taking that time to be mindful and appreciative of where I'm at and bringing positivity to the day.

40:07 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Shannon.

40:07 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Ask me in a month when I have a more settled routine. Honestly, my plan wakes me up every morning. That's about the most consistent thing that I think right now.

40:19 - Samy Soussan (Host)
You know what. I totally feel you on that, Shannon. There's always a lot going on, and so well, I will take you up on that and reach out to you, yeah in a month let's see if I have any more consistency, all right. Well, I know you guys are very passionate about real estate and about marketing, but what are some hobbies, or just one hobby or interest that you guys have outside of work that most people don't know about?

40:41 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
I love a great farmer's market. I love to go in other cities to other like farmers markets or local markets. And then I also have another shameless plug, but I am going to be launching a merch line pretty soon where some of the profits will go back to ADHD, because one of my daughters does have ADHD, and so I'm really passionate about finding a way to try and give back to some of the organizations that have helped us.

41:15 - Samy Soussan (Host)
I love that, ashlyn.

41:17 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
I mean, I feel like I'm a pretty open book, so most people know most things about what I'm up to. But something I'm really passionate about is family history and ancestry, and I love to go to the family heritage museums and really dive in. I've tracked my every line of my family back to the 1500s, so that's it's been a big passion project. I would love one day to do a trip to all the locations or the notable locations from my family history, but that's definitely when I'm a little bit older that is definitely a unique, a unique hobby.

41:52 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Okay, and and what about any? Are you guys into books or podcasts? Can you share maybe one book or podcast that you've been listening to lately that you really enjoy?

42:01 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
you're gonna laugh. Maybe maybe not as far as books I do. I love magazines. I'm just a magazine gal. So I love Metropolis, I love Fast Company, I love Texas Monthly, so I love a great magazine read. But then podcasts, I really have this like I'm always drawn to the Joe Rogan show. I just love it. I don't know. It's very, you know, just kind of like when you're driving you can just he's engaging Veg, veg, yeah.

42:31 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Sure, no, I love that. That's awesome, ashley. What about you?

42:34 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
Oh, I mean, the Diary of a CEO is one of my favorites. I listen to it almost every day and there's just great things to learn from like CEOs that have made it and I feel like other founders hearing from them. I find it really interesting to see like everyone's different paths were so different, but they ended up in the same position.

42:53 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Sure, I love that. And last question I know I'm not trying to date you guys and say how old you are, but what is one piece of advice? I ask this to everyone and I think that doesn't matter how old you are. I think it's important to understand that. What is that one piece of advice that you would give to your younger self?

43:12 - Shannon Bedinger (Guest)
Be an advocate for yourself, and I tell a lot of the team members that I've had the pleasure of hopefully being a mentor to that, because it's really hard and it takes you know, confidence and determination, and it's just not an easy skill I would say to just have. So I always encourage people to be your number one advocate in your career.

43:33 - Ashlynn Wooten (Guest)
You know I would say to not take anything personally, that would be the biggest thing and then to just show up more. I feel like in the last few years especially, I put what people might have thought of me aside and did what I wanted to do and showed up how I wanted to, where I wanted to, and just was my genuine, authentic self and I feel like that's what's made me not only like have some success in the industry but also just be fulfilled as a person Like I. Genuinely I get so much energy from going to events and meeting people and like building those relationships Like that. Even if I left CRE I would still want to maintain those and that has brought me the most fulfillment. That's and that's a big reason I like the commercial industry how connected everyone is and there's such a nice bond between everyone, some really genuine friendships well.

44:23 - Samy Soussan (Host)
Thank you both tremendously for for joining me today on the podcast. I'm really, really excited to see the unique projects that you guys are going to work on and what you're going to be contributing to the commercial real estate industry. So everyone keep an eye open for this dynamic duo. We got Ashlyn and Shannon from Seven Rivers and Jabber that are going to be plowing the commercial real estate marketing world. So looking forward to what you guys come up with and thank you again so much for joining us. We really appreciate having you on the show. And to all our listeners, thanks for joining us again for another episode of the Commercial Real Estate Connection podcast. Looking forward to catching you at the next episode.